Episode 85: Maggie Smith, author of Truth and Other Lies
Maggie Smith shares the inspiration behind her debut novel, Truth and Other Lies, which has been described as “twisty, timely, and rivetingly thought-provoking.”
The story brings together three women whose lives converge as one fights a devastating accusation, another campaigns for a contested seat in Congress, and one, a young reporter with ties to both, navigates the tricky line between secrets and lies.
And how it all started with a writing prompt that said “I could never write a book about…”
Books Mentioned:
The Truth and Other Lies by Maggie Smith (Bookshop.org / Amazon.com )
Author, Hank Philippi Ryan
Woman on Fire by Lisa Barr (Bookshop.org / Amazon.com )
The Christie Affair by Nina De Gramont (Bookshop.org / Amazon.com )
Other Resources:
Hear Us Roar, the podcast Maggie hosts with Women’s Fiction Writers Association
Connect with the author:
Transcript:
** Transcript created using AI (so please forgive the typos!) **
Lainey 0:00
Hi, this is Lainey Cameron, and I am here with Maggie Smith. Her debut, Truth and Other Lies just released just recently, and I had a chance to read it. It's a phenomenal rate. It's a great book club book. And I'm excited because there's so many great themes in this book, like many themes for us to talk about. But let's start with Maggie. Where are you joining me from today?
Maggie Smith 0:20
I'm joining you from Milwaukee, Wisconsin. It's still cold here, even though it's the end of middle of March. Yeah, we don't get much spring here. Unfortunately.
Lainey 0:31
I won't like rub it in by saying that I've been to Mexico, and it's lovely weather out the window. Right. So truth and other lies, it has so many interesting themes woven through it. And I'm actually fascinated to hear how you describe this novel, like how do you for people who haven't yet had a chance to read it? How do you describe the book?
Maggie Smith 0:51
Well, I've been thinking about that, as I've been asked it quite often lightly. That I really think it's, it's, it's kind of like an iceberg when I describe it in what the plot is. It's kind of like what you can see above the ocean. So it's got journalism, it's got social media, Twitter troll, it's got a, a woman that's running a secondary character that's running for political office. So it's got those things that are kind of buzzy. But underneath, it's really kind of a story of a 25 year old searching for who's going to be the role model for her for her life. And the two choices that I'm presenting in the book, one is a famous journalist, and she's a journalist, that services kind of a mentor for her. And she's very charismatic, she's won the Pulitzer, everyone knows her, I say, think of like, this is Diane Sawyer in another life. And her mother, who is the one that is running for political office, but she and her mother have a very contentious relationship. And they have a totally different belief system value system in terms of most of the social issues that are running around nowadays. So she, she's gravitating toward the, you know, famous charismatic mentor. And it's kind of the story of how she's looking for what kind of woman she wants to be. And I think that's the part that's buried underneath the waves, but is the more pertinent thing that I was interested in writing about?
Lainey 2:28
Well, I'm gonna do something I love to do, which is to pick a review from from one of my favorite authors, when people have amazing endorsements and the endorsements on this book, like it reads like a reel of my favorite authors. It's fabulous. I mean, seriously, Camille Pagan. You've got Ann Garvin, you've got Jamie Beck, you've got Hank Phillippi Ryan, which is the one I'm going to read like, wow, that you know, a book is good when all of those authors are willing to stand behind it. So let me just read for folks who haven't yet got a sense of this book, a little bit about what Hank Phillippi Ryan said. She describes it as twisty, timely and riveting. Lee thought provoking Smith minds, the intensity of competition, the duplicity of the human psyche, and the terrifying knowledge that with one wrong decision, your life can be changed forever, forever. The author knows her journalism, which I think is fabulous, because for anyone who doesn't know Hank Phillippi Ryan, she was herself an award winning journalist and is phenomenal. And so it's amazing when an award winning journalist tells you your book, but journalists gets it. Right. Yeah, exactly. And she talks about the stress and the compulsion for the big story, and how you, as an author, deeply understand the tension and conflicts that women battle when their professional and personal lives are set on a collision course. And wow, what a review. I mean, Hank, is amazing. So you must have liked Did you do a little dance around the living room when you got one endorsement?
Maggie Smith 3:47
One of the last ones that came through so it was like, Well, I mean, all of them are great. And the rest, the rest of them were more women's fiction, which is what this genre is. Hank, I really picked because of what you mentioned that she was a journalist, I said, I know you write thrillers and this isn't really a thriller, but I'm coming to you because I want the journalist to look at it.
Lainey 4:09
And a brilliant writer, Her books are phenomenal page turners. So I was so excited to see that one. So tell folks about the inspiration for this. Like, when I wrote my own review, I gave this a five star review. It's a phenomenal book and I talked about how complex it is that you've woven in, like I said earlier, all these different themes, but I'm really interested like where did it start? Right? What was the inspiration the beginning kernel of how you came up with a book that you know attacks the generational divide attacks the idea of like social media and trolls and stuff getting out of out of control online its attacks the idea of familial relationships and how do we find to be really are at the end of the day as a as a young millennial, I mean, goodness, you packed so much into this book.
Maggie Smith 4:55
Oh, it actually started out in a Workshop, the very first workshop that I took as a writer, which was about four years ago, I guess. And it was a prompt that said, I could never write a book about. And I put mothers and daughters. And because I don't have any children of my own, although I've had stepchildren through the years, and my mother and I had a very contentious, fractious relationship from, I think the day I was born, it seems like not not abusive, or any of that terrible stuff. But just not loving and not close the people that call their mother every day, I shake my hand and go, I don't get it. And my mother is deceased now. So I can say that. But that was kind of the impetus, I wanted to write about that relationship. And it's a long ways from where it started, which was really kind of a secret baby adoption story when it started and has nothing to do with that now. But it does have it always had those three characters, an older mentor, a mother and a daughter. And for a couple of the iterations, the mother was really the major focus of the book. And I switch somewhere along the line to the daughter, being the only point of view I took on too much. At the beginning, for a beginning writer, I had all three points of view. And wisely, an editor told me just pick one for your first book.
Lainey 6:32
It's really works, I think it really works. I was lucky enough, because you and I did some workshops and workshops together to read an earlier version. And I think leading with the younger millennial point of view really worked really well in the book. And for me, I loved how you put politics between the mother and the daughter, and we've all experienced these days, I think that politics have become really fractious, right? If one person is far to the right, and the other is far to the left, it could cause this divide not just among generations, but among families. And I thought you portrayed that very well, because you've got the young journalist is super idealistic, who's struggling with the politics of her mother that are completely contrary to her own. And I thought that was a great choice to do it that way.
Maggie Smith 7:11
Yeah, and that's the feedback I'm getting from readers, I have a lot of pre reviews, I put the book out for not for everybody, but on Net Galley. So I do have a lot of people that are, are giving reviews early. And that's what the feedback I'm getting a lot is that even though I didn't agree with either one or the other character, I could see the point of view. And I think that's kind of what's going to be necessary to repair some of the real fractious things that are going on, between family members or friends or things like that, that, you know, at least listen to the other person and, and give them the benefit of the doubt sometimes that there might be more going on behind the scenes than you know about.
Lainey 7:57
And without giving anything away of the storyline here, I thought you did a lovely job of giving hope to the reader that that might be possible for us all someday. So I really thought he did a nice job of putting that in a way that like I ended hopeful with this book.
Maggie Smith 8:11
All right. Well, I I hope it will pass this time that we're in the middle of it's, it's ugly. Yeah,
Lainey 8:19
it really is. It drives me crazy. So you talked a little bit about this, how it changed over time, it had more points of view, is there anything the reader might be surprised to know is different now in the final version than the earlier versions or the way you originally, you know, kind of saw the book?
Maggie Smith 8:35
Well, the first book that I went out with four agents, not to again, give too much away, but the bad guy won in the book, and that was feedback I got a lot is that you have to change that and and I was like, I know, I know I do. But I've struggled with it, and I can't figure it out. And people, you know, agents would come back and and some of the small presses that I went to to said, Well, that's your problem, you've got to figure it out. And so I thought, okay, so I went back to the drawing board and really worked on a way that I could turn that around at the end to make it you know, the good guy wins.
Lainey 9:20
Awesome. And any advice based on what you've learned there from other for other writers because you like you say you took on this incredibly ambitious debut taking on these really big hard topics. And you executed it flawlessly. This book is fabulous. It's getting great reviews, like you say so like, and but you still had to make some changes, right? You had to say okay, maybe if I'm going to attack all these big topics, I also don't need three points of view. I think it's a perfect example. Like is there anything else you learned that you kind of advise someone else who's maybe trying to take on some big stuff with their debut or any other kind of advice for writers who want to be where you are with a well reviewed fabulous debut?
Maggie Smith 9:57
Well, I I think also I was not writing the mother very deeply. Because of the things I've talked about before, she she holds political views that are different than mine, she kind of represented my mother. And so I found that that was another thing I was getting from my developmental editors is you, you really can't paint this person so negatively, you have to look deeper. And, and that may be more difficult for you to identify with her than the young, because I remember what it was like to be 25 years old and idealistic. So that one was easy for me. But I did have to struggle with the mother and go back and really try and question a little bit more why I was writing her the way I was. And now she's kind of really my favorite character, because I think she was the most difficult to write.
Lainey 10:52
Yeah, and you did a nice job of making her relatable, right? I also don't happen to particularly agree with her politics. But she's almost a heroine character. By the end of the book, she makes some interesting choices. She faces things head on the mother character, again, without telling people the details. But you did a nice job of portraying this character in a way that I related to certainly as a reader, and here's what's interesting. I was just thinking about your main character is a young idealistic journalist that you portray really well. I just talked to Lisa bar two weeks ago, but WOMAN ON FIRE whose main character is a young idealistic journalist, and so her name's Yes. Yeah. And so if people liked that one, they might also like yours, cuz I feel like there are some similarities in that character, completely different plot, nothing in common. But I feel like that character, really kind of the two would like if they got together in a coffee shop, they would get on like wildfire. They really like each other. Yeah,
Maggie Smith 11:43
I read her book. And in fact, she was one of the ones I was gonna mention that I've been reading that I really enjoyed. Yes, his or her Canvas is much bigger. You know, it's international intrigue.
Lainey 11:54
Nazi looted art stolen art?
Maggie Smith 11:57
Yeah, you know, so much bigger than life. But I do feel like there were there was an older character in there, that's, you know, not necessarily the best role model, and a young, idealistic journalist. So as I was reading, and I was thinking, maybe this is in the atmosphere.
Lainey 12:17
So yeah. So seeing as you brought it up, it's a perfect transition to books. Anything you would recommend that you have read recently, or that you just love?
Maggie Smith 12:28
Well, Lisa Barr's Woman on Fire, which has just been optioned by Sharon Stone, so she's, she's going to get it made. And Sharon is going to be the older character.
Lainey 12:38
Wowza. I just saw that.
Maggie Smith 12:40
I also really loved The Christie Affair that came out in February, and I'm a big Agatha Christie fan. And it's basically this a retelling or a re imagining of what happened during the 11 day disappearance of Agatha Christie, when her marriage was breaking up. And I thought that the author, Nina De Gramont, I think it might be the French pronunciation, did just a really excellent job of coming up with a thing that I would never have guessed as to why that happened. And it could have happened that way, or it couldn't have. But I found it very interesting to read that book. Because of the whole Agatha Christie genre that I'm, I'm fascinated by.
Lainey 13:30
Cool. And you also mentioned Lisa bars book, which is also fabulous. I had a chance to read that one, too. It's one of the best things about doing the podcast is I get to read early copies of people's books and talk to them and ask my questions. So let's wrap up by me asking you is there anything we haven't talked about that you particularly love to talk about relative to this book, it's full of secrets. It's got lots of intrigue, it kind of plays out as you go through the book. It's really smart. What I said in my review smart and compelling reads, like, like not every book is this clever, and credits the reader with being clever, you know, sometimes books kind of treat the reader a little like, let me break this down and make it really silly, silly, silly, simple for you. And this book, I felt like you were treating me like a smart reader. And I appreciated that. So is there anything you want to share that I haven't asked you?
Maggie Smith 14:17
Well, I was more thinking, you know, along the lines of advice, not necessarily about this book, but about, you know, I am a podcaster as you are, and I have been thinking lately about how all the people I've talked to and it's been over 100 Now, how they all persevered. And they all found a way to get their book out there and I got turned down by not quite as many agents as you did, but I just stopped before you did and went to small presses but and then my first press went bankrupt. And I had to start over again looking for small presses. So I think just the idea of what it takes to print are severe, and to get your work out there, but there's always a path for you. And that's I think one of the lessons I'm taking from this debut is that I am with a small press, I have a good publicist that's helped me. And I've done a lot of the work too. But I think it's also because of the quality of the book that I put out. I do think I tried very hard, as you said, to say, I want to read, I want to write a book, that would be like I would like to read and I'm an intelligent reader and an intelligent woman. And I don't I usually don't finish books, where the characters are more caricatures than anything else. And they don't seem like they're behaving like anybody I know. So I, in this genre, at least in women's fiction, I think it's important to get the feelings, right, and to have it be truthful and honest about how people actually behave,
Lainey 15:58
right? Is there anything in particular from those early reviews that has like warmed your heart that makes you like, want to dance around the living room?
Maggie Smith 16:05
Well, I won't say her name. But today, I got a phone call while I was driving, my husband was driving. And it was somebody I know. But I've just met, she's a new friend and reader. And she was saying, I just had to call you to tell you how much I'm loving your book. And I never call people. I always text people. But I I'm calling you I'm on page 217. And I was like, You have made my day this is. That's, that's really the most fun thing for being a writer is to have interactions with actual readers that you don't particularly know I mean, they're not your writer friends that you grew up with, in the in the writing journey, and they're not your book club friends, they're, they're people that you feel like are a naive reader that came to your work, and are really being honest about it. So that was Oh, that's wonderful. Phenomenal.
Lainey 17:01
Did you do anything at that moment? Did you a little fist pump or anything in particular? Thank you. Thank you. I was going what's going on? I love it. Well, to wrap us up here. If folks want to connect with you. Where do you think in the world and social media? Is there one particular platform that you'd like to be on?
Maggie Smith 17:18
Yeah, I'm generally on Instagram. I'm my handle is Maggie Smith writes WRI te s. I'm an ex art consultant. So the writing and the artwork kind of combined into Instagram. And that's where I tend to hang out. I'm on Twitter a little bit and Facebook.
Lainey 17:39
I love your cover analysis, you do a great job of showing trends and book covers that I think is fabulous. And I think I just saw like a couple of weeks back. You even showed like the history behind this cover of this book and the different iterations that went through. So if folks are interested in that, I'll put your link to your Instagram to your website and the books that you recommended on the episode page on the website and best of women's fiction calm. And thank you so much for joining me today Maggie and great luck with the debut there.
Maggie Smith 18:05
Thanks for having me on.